fosforany a żelazo?

[Marx]

Na newsach znalazlem ciekawy watek, o zbijaniu fosforanow "stalową wełną w kulkach" (o ile dobrze to przetlumaczylem). Stal rdzewiejąc rozkłada się i wiąże fosforany

Słyszal ktos o tej metodzie?

Ponizej wyciag z dyslusji

----------------------

I treat Phosphates with small balls of steel wool every two weeks.

All I do is roll up a small ball of steel wool about 1cm in dia. and drop it

in.

The 1st time I did this the tank went a bit cloudy.....this is good as it

lets you know the phosphates are being binded.

Every 2 or 3 weeks I drop a small ball in. Every time I test for

phos........there are none. No other side effects.

By they way.....the steel ball 'rusts' away to nothing in about 48 hours.

It is the iron oxide that deals with the phosphates. Nothing remains to

remove.

I have been doing it for 6 months.

Phosphates have not returned. Maybe I could cut the amount of steel wool

down or do it every 2 months????? I don't know. My local fish shop guru said

'do this' and I di it. He has never been wrong.

Quick googleing:

"

a chemistry question

Dear Mr. Bob Fenner,

First of all, I would like to thank you for answering my last question a few

weeks ago pertaining to Cyanobacteria. Of course your advice worked and was

appreciated. Now I have a new question of a little bit more technical

nature.

A year or so ago, I was in a chemistry class at my university and learned

that Iron would bond to phosphate in much the same manner that it bonds to

calcium carbonate and would precipitate out of solution. This idea appealed

to me very much and immediately went home to conduct an experiment. I set up

a ten gallon aquarium and with a whisper hang on filter. Then I filled it

with water loaded with phosphate. I am not certain as to how much phosphate

as it was off the scale of my dry tab test. Next I let the temperature

equilibrate at 78 degrees and inserted a fair sized piece of steel wool in

the

back of the filter. This is where it gets interesting. I checked the

phosphate again 12 hours later. There was no change but the water was cloudy

with a whitish sediment forming on the bottom. 36 hours later I checked the

water and it was devoid of any phosphate which my test would detect and the

water was clearing. I have since asked a host of professors from chemists to

biologists and even a geologist about the potential effects of either the

precipitate or the iron on any living organisms in the tank. Most of them

were willing to talk to me about possibilities but none could give me a hard

answer and all were too busy to look into it any further.

I have since heard of a commercial filtration system which uses iron as a

phosphate remover in addition to activated carbon but that was only in

passing

and I couldn't find out any details about it. I am hoping that you might be

familiar with this idea. I would greatly appreciate any information you may

be able to pass on as I am too poor to experiment with fish on my own and I

am

not very keen on wasting a perfectly healthy fish or invert by accident. I

hope that I am not just wasting your time or mine but this sounds like it

would be a cheaper alternative to commercial phosphate removers if it really

works.

Sincerely, Your avid supporter and Fan, Byron Toothman

>>>>

Byron, you raise many important (at least to me) and interesting points. As

a practitioner of the pet-fish arts and sciences as well as an ex-HS

Chemistry/Physics and Bio. teacher (and avid reader since on the subjects),

I am familiar with a bit of what you're referring to: Yes ferrous ion will

precipitate out phosphate (hydrolysable, about the only form pet-fish

hobbyists are concerned about), and No, most all the Phosphate removed in

this fashion is gone... made insoluble. But, a bunch of buts here... Both

some phosphorus and iron are necessary to all living things hobbyists

like... but not too much of either one... Not to be seen as trying to appear

elusive/evasive, there are other bits of the big puzzle to be lost by

over-supplying iron... in whatever valence state... and a few other reasons

(toxic ones at that) for avoiding this route... Instead, might I strike out

for truth, justice and the ornamental aquatics way and suggest neither iron

nor commercial phosphate removal products, but simpler boosted

photosynthesis as a/the means of removing excess PO4? Here's my usual plug

for "balance" twixt lighting, nutrients/feeding and purposeful Macrophyte,

live rock, algae scrubbers...) photosynthesis...

Bob Fenner "

"* In strongly acid mineral soils, soluble Fe, Al, and Mg can exist

and react with existing phosphates rendering them insoluble. Often

the amount of soluble metal ions greatly exceeds the amount of

soluble phosphates, and only minute amounts of soluble phosphate

will remain [for plants and algae] at equilibrium. Even greater

amounts of phosphates are removed from solution in acid soils by

oxides of Fe and Al. In acid conditions these oxides have a net

positive charge and they attract phosphate ions from solution into

exchangeable positions on their surface. With time the phosphate

ions either migrate into the center of the oxide particles and

become unavailable, or react with the hydrous oxide to form an

insoluble compound, or are use by plants and microorganisms. Since

several insoluble compounds can be made by the reaction of

phosphates with hydrous oxides of Fe/Al, it is thought that

phosphate may be fixed over a wide pH range extending from low

through the neutral zone, even though little charge exists in the

neutral/alkaline region on the oxide surface. Kaolinite can also

fix phosphorus under moderately acid conditions, but the mechanism

is unknown. Other silicate clays hold a very small pH-dependent

positive charge which is generally insignificant. [Hydrous oxides

and kaolinite are the primary components of tropical 'laterite' or

'latisols' (the more current name). This suggest that laterite in

the substrate with water circulation through it may play a role in

reducing phosphate levels in a tank, especially in acid water. It

also suggests that any form of iron oxide in the tank (rusting steel

wool in the filter or unchelated garden Fe supplement?) may help

reduce phosphate levels in the tank. Since a low pH is better,

substrate additions may be the best bet.]

"

[BartY]

jest wkład na fosforany z Two Little Fishes i jak się go płuka to leci z niego cos jak rdzawa woda:) to może to .

[Arcadio]

Jest to dosc zanan metoda ale nie stosuje sie jej dlatego, iz taka welna z zelaza zawiera rowniez inne zwiazki i sa to czesto bardzo szkodliwe metale ciezkie.

Ostatnio pojawil sie jednak pomysl aby usuwac fosfor za pomoca dosc czystego chemicznie zelaza, Fe(99.99%). Z tego co wiem to zdaje to egzamin i jak do tej pory nie zauwazono negatywnych skutkow.

[Marx]

ten link nie funguje

[Arcadio]

Faktycznie... artykul zniknal.

Ale moze to pomoze.